more like we live before a body that closes its eyes intentionally and says “i’m blind” closes its mouth intentionally and emotes “it’s mute” closes its ears intentionally and emotes “i’m deaf” takes a smartphone in the hand and pretends to be “out of focus” living in a life where no one truly cares or wants you to exist … what options exactly do you have? specially when you yourself do not wish to exist to begin with it?
Unfortunately accurate. I just wanted to note that the art here has grown so much! I didn’t even recognize the depressed character at first. All that practice is really showing.
Thank you for the kind words! I’m really trying my best, even though some characters look a little off because I draw them once every three or four months ;;;
Well put! These days I feel like I have a mental whiteboard with a long list on it titled “Reasons Not to Die.” At the very top is “I like living and want to continue, even if things aren’t good right now.” Then comes a long series of “I would never do that to person X who I care about” reasons.
When I get seriously depressed, the reasons start to fade out as though they’ve been erased, one by one over time. I still *know* it would be unthinkably horrible to hurt my loved ones like that, but…the list is still in my head, and getting shorter, and the reasons at the top become more like “unpaid debts” and “horrible mess for someone else to have to clean up” and “no good methods”. People who don’t have depression really underestimate how much it messes with your head.
it’s more like give me a reason to live and i’ll give you a thousand to die. give me a reason to smile and i’ll give you a thousand to cry give me a reason to keep moving on and i’ll show you a billion why i have stopped for good and guess what? when i do so all they’ll hear is: give me a reason to live and i’ll blah blah blah … every single time their selective listening is just ……. a crime
and that is why society can go to hell whenever it feels like it. people think they can merely judge us because they got a mouth and a talkative tongue. suicide is not selfish , for us it’s the only salvation that exists. and upon suicide society would be shocked for a couple of moments calling us named and shaming and blah blah blah …. thanks very much for the new post!
I consider suicide an act of supreme bravery…. and yet also the act of sadness and resignation.
Bravery – because a religious person has rules that usually say “suicides go to hell”… and atheists have just death and rotting.
Resignation – because that “hell” or “rotting” is STILL seen as better than the shit they are living now.
Sadness – because once life ends there is zero possibility of anything… at all… ever. (no, I don’t agree with “while there is life there’s hope”, life is pain and despair and shit then death. But death is and end to it all)
So a suicide must feel that the hell/rotting and no possibility of anything, ever, is still better than this shit life… and they might be right. And that’s also sad…
Personally, if I ever got the courage and definitely felt like “doing it”, I’d try to make it useful – clean up the planet, take as any politicians as you can with you… But then… I also think, “Fuck ’em…. piss them off by living”
Selfish is definitely the wrong term. The problem with depression is that it narrows the brain’s focus onto only oneself, one’s thoughts, and one’s own feelings of worth. It doesn’t allow one to actually look outside that bubble of feeling to see how things may affect others, or how others may think of one. Obviously a person with depression isn’t “selfish”, but they do tend to be self-focused to an unhealthy degree. Though, again, it’s not their fault – it’s just an awful symptom of the disease. The fact is, though, that when a depressed person commits suicide, even though they honestly did think and feel that they are leaving their loved ones better off, they really aren’t – and especially if they leave behind young children, they also leave behind a great deal more than pain and hurt. I wish there was a simple solution – or at least better treatments for depression. Either way, it’s more complex than “suicide is a selfish act” or even understanding that a suicidal person just feels the world would be better off without them in it.?
… what are you talking about? The point of the strip is to stop being judgemental about things you refuse to understand. But of course, you did exactly that.
_Is_ it other people’s duty to deal with my issues?
Who cannot be in any way judgemental? I, for instance, do not understand some people`s fixation on their invisible friend but still have opinions on that. Especially when their issue affects me but also in general (just not as loud).
This whole suicide is selfish thing does come across as weird to me – so there’s another judgement. Your character makes a judgement on society’s opinion as well and he does not seem to understand it either.
Humans are weird; I seriously wish you came with a manual.
Both of you are hanging on this strawman “he is saying it’s Society’s reponsibility to deal with my issues” which is definitely not the case. It’s the first panel — the shaming of people — which brings attention to it. Since Society has chosen to shame people without understanding the issue, there are going to be problems. Especially when the shaming of the person may affect their ability and motivation to seek help with the problem. If Society said nothing, there wouldn’t BE this extra issue to deal with.
So no, no one is saying that people have to deal with anyone’s issues. In fact, the world would be a better place if people didn’t get involved in things they are willfully ignorant about and just stay away.
Seriously, if people only responded to issues they totally understand, mankind would have died out ages ago. Eaten by the issue half-visible in the long grass that they spent too much time trying to work out if it was a predator or not.
There is no way you can get that out of people without them stopping to be people.
You mentioned you were diagnosed with autism so you might be looking at humanity from the outside. Ever thought that autism might be the next evolutionary step? Fewer dependance on emotion, more rational by nature? But not likely to be an alpha in a group of social old-world apes unless that group is more of a cat-herd.
WTF are you talking about?!? This strip isn’t about responding to things you don’t understand. It’s about shaming people while refusing to understand them. Don’t try to change what I’m saying to something I’m not saying, I refuse to play that game.
The suggestion that people who have autism are “outside” of humanity is abhorrent. Autism comes in many shapes and forms and I am fortunate enough to be on the higher functioning side of the disorder; there are many who cannot communicate meaningfully and have difficulty living independently. They’re all human.
You’re being judgmental about society having to conform to you. I don’t refuse to understand. I get what you’re saying, I just don’t necessarily agree.
In Coolio’s Gangsta’s Paradice, he says,
“They say I gotta learn, but nobody’s here to teach me If they can’t understand it, how can they reach me?”
I don’t mind helping people. At all. I’m glad when I can. But, it shouldn’t be ON ME to reach you. I have my own issues. I have MY life, My family, MY friends to deal with. To help.
I think you’re conflating “on ME as a thing that is my job to take care of, at the same level as my family” with “on me in a fractional way as a member of a society/community”. They are two very different things.
You also seem to be confusing “try to understand how these people feel” with “use your precious resources to take care of these people”. That’s, uh, quite a stretch there. Unless you’re saying your sympathy itself is a limited precious resource and you can only give it to yourself and family and friends? If so, why spend your time and attention on reading this comic at all?
I’m not refusing to understand society though, that’s a huge difference. It’s about (once again) making judgements and about being willfully ignorant making them. No one said it’s all on you, no one says it’s your job to reach people, but let’s not be judgemental jerks to each other. I don’t know why it’s difficult to get behind this message.
Selfishness is a matter of perspective. Who is more selfish? A person who wants to end their own suffering by suicide, mistakingly thinking they are a burden to their loved ones, wrongly believing they have nothing positive to contribute to this world or a person who wants to avoid the pain of losing a loved one to suicide and therefore expects the depressed person to keep on suffering? Whose suffering takes precedence? In an ideal society no one should have to suffer and we help each other alleviate the suffering as much as possible. But alas, society isn’t ideal so this judgemental attitude will stick around a little bit longer I’m afraid. I don’t comment often, but I want you to know Clay that your comics are always an inspiration and a glimmer of sunshine on the rainy days. I love your drawing style and your texts are always straight to the point. <3
The problem with using terms like “selfish” is that they indicate a personality characteristic or flaw. Thus, when we say “suicide is selfish” we are not attributing suicide to an illness such as depression but to some flaw in the person. I think the problem of suicide is better served focusing on the medical rather than the shame. In many cases suicide is not a personality flaw but the endgame to a lethal illness called depression.
This is where society is wrong; I agree with what was written about suicide, however I also believe that suicide means “giving up” really. If you feel alone, no one is listening to you, no one can help you get rid of these thoughts, then always remember this: away from religion, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has a purpose in life. It’s only a matter of time until they realize it. They wouldn’t see it straight away, however they should be patient. I’ve been patient for a long time. I’ve been dealing with this stuff so much so that I loved being alone; I always feared loneliness and lose of hope and help, but here I am typing. You can say that I have withstood the “ultimate” obstacle of life, yet there is more to come. Know what? I’ll wait for it to bash me in the head, break my bones, tear my soul to shreds, burn my memories like paper and even take me into a never ending loop of torture. Trust me, you’ll find me getting up some how. Was I gifted with patience? No; you can’t call patience a “gift” since a gift is more special and unique, a “one-of-a-kind” thing given to you. Rather patience is within everyone. With it, you show society, and life itself for that matter, than you ain’t giving up just yet, because there is still a lot out there to see, cherish, love and live for.
So never give up! Stay strong and be safe! (Need help, let me know)
we live in a SOCIETY
more like we live before a body that closes its eyes intentionally and says “i’m blind”
closes its mouth intentionally and emotes “it’s mute”
closes its ears intentionally and emotes “i’m deaf”
takes a smartphone in the hand and pretends to be “out of focus”
living in a life where no one truly cares or wants you to exist … what options exactly do you have?
specially when you yourself do not wish to exist to begin with it?
And that society has rules. Aisle seat gets the Aisle and one arm rest. Middle seat gets two arm rests. Window seat gets the wall and one arm rest.
Unfortunately accurate. I just wanted to note that the art here has grown so much! I didn’t even recognize the depressed character at first. All that practice is really showing.
Thank you for the kind words! I’m really trying my best, even though some characters look a little off because I draw them once every three or four months ;;;
Well put! These days I feel like I have a mental whiteboard with a long list on it titled “Reasons Not to Die.” At the very top is “I like living and want to continue, even if things aren’t good right now.” Then comes a long series of “I would never do that to person X who I care about” reasons.
When I get seriously depressed, the reasons start to fade out as though they’ve been erased, one by one over time. I still *know* it would be unthinkably horrible to hurt my loved ones like that, but…the list is still in my head, and getting shorter, and the reasons at the top become more like “unpaid debts” and “horrible mess for someone else to have to clean up” and “no good methods”. People who don’t have depression really underestimate how much it messes with your head.
it’s more like give me a reason to live and i’ll give you a thousand to die.
give me a reason to smile and i’ll give you a thousand to cry
give me a reason to keep moving on and i’ll show you a billion why i have stopped for good
and guess what? when i do so all they’ll hear is:
give me a reason to live and i’ll blah blah blah … every single time their selective listening is just ……. a crime
and that is why society can go to hell whenever it feels like it.
people think they can merely judge us because they got a mouth and a talkative tongue.
suicide is not selfish , for us it’s the only salvation that exists. and upon suicide society would be shocked for a couple of moments calling us named and shaming and blah blah blah …. thanks very much for the new post!
I consider suicide an act of supreme bravery…. and yet also the act of sadness and resignation.
Bravery – because a religious person has rules that usually say “suicides go to hell”… and atheists have just death and rotting.
Resignation – because that “hell” or “rotting” is STILL seen as better than the shit they are living now.
Sadness – because once life ends there is zero possibility of anything… at all… ever. (no, I don’t agree with “while there is life there’s hope”, life is pain and despair and shit then death. But death is and end to it all)
So a suicide must feel that the hell/rotting and no possibility of anything, ever, is still better than this shit life… and they might be right. And that’s also sad…
Personally, if I ever got the courage and definitely felt like “doing it”, I’d try to make it useful – clean up the planet, take as any politicians as you can with you…
But then… I also think, “Fuck ’em…. piss them off by living”
Good Lord how much truth can you FIT inyo four panels?!
0
0
0
0
Selfish is definitely the wrong term. The problem with depression is that it narrows the brain’s focus onto only oneself, one’s thoughts, and one’s own feelings of worth. It doesn’t allow one to actually look outside that bubble of feeling to see how things may affect others, or how others may think of one. Obviously a person with depression isn’t “selfish”, but they do tend to be self-focused to an unhealthy degree. Though, again, it’s not their fault – it’s just an awful symptom of the disease. The fact is, though, that when a depressed person commits suicide, even though they honestly did think and feel that they are leaving their loved ones better off, they really aren’t – and especially if they leave behind young children, they also leave behind a great deal more than pain and hurt. I wish there was a simple solution – or at least better treatments for depression. Either way, it’s more complex than “suicide is a selfish act” or even understanding that a suicidal person just feels the world would be better off without them in it.?
Why should it be society’s job to figure out what your problems might be? Don’t we have enough of our own issues. Why are you more important than me?
… what are you talking about? The point of the strip is to stop being judgemental about things you refuse to understand. But of course, you did exactly that.
Playing devil’s advocate, maybe?
_Is_ it other people’s duty to deal with my issues?
Who cannot be in any way judgemental? I, for instance, do not understand some people`s fixation on their invisible friend but still have opinions on that. Especially when their issue affects me but also in general (just not as loud).
This whole suicide is selfish thing does come across as weird to me – so there’s another judgement. Your character makes a judgement on society’s opinion as well and he does not seem to understand it either.
Humans are weird; I seriously wish you came with a manual.
Both of you are hanging on this strawman “he is saying it’s Society’s reponsibility to deal with my issues” which is definitely not the case. It’s the first panel — the shaming of people — which brings attention to it. Since Society has chosen to shame people without understanding the issue, there are going to be problems. Especially when the shaming of the person may affect their ability and motivation to seek help with the problem. If Society said nothing, there wouldn’t BE this extra issue to deal with.
So no, no one is saying that people have to deal with anyone’s issues. In fact, the world would be a better place if people didn’t get involved in things they are willfully ignorant about and just stay away.
Seriously, if people only responded to issues they totally understand, mankind would have died out ages ago.
Eaten by the issue half-visible in the long grass that they spent too much time trying to work out if it was a predator or not.
There is no way you can get that out of people without them stopping to be people.
You mentioned you were diagnosed with autism so you might be looking at humanity from the outside. Ever thought that autism might be the next evolutionary step? Fewer dependance on emotion, more rational by nature? But not likely to be an alpha in a group of social old-world apes unless that group is more of a cat-herd.
WTF are you talking about?!? This strip isn’t about responding to things you don’t understand. It’s about shaming people while refusing to understand them. Don’t try to change what I’m saying to something I’m not saying, I refuse to play that game.
The suggestion that people who have autism are “outside” of humanity is abhorrent. Autism comes in many shapes and forms and I am fortunate enough to be on the higher functioning side of the disorder; there are many who cannot communicate meaningfully and have difficulty living independently. They’re all human.
You’re being judgmental about society having to conform to you. I don’t refuse to understand. I get what you’re saying, I just don’t necessarily agree.
In Coolio’s Gangsta’s Paradice, he says,
“They say I gotta learn, but nobody’s here to teach me
If they can’t understand it, how can they reach me?”
I don’t mind helping people. At all. I’m glad when I can. But, it shouldn’t be ON ME to reach you. I have my own issues. I have MY life, My family, MY friends to deal with. To help.
Why is it my job to reach other people?
I think you’re conflating “on ME as a thing that is my job to take care of, at the same level as my family” with “on me in a fractional way as a member of a society/community”. They are two very different things.
You also seem to be confusing “try to understand how these people feel” with “use your precious resources to take care of these people”. That’s, uh, quite a stretch there. Unless you’re saying your sympathy itself is a limited precious resource and you can only give it to yourself and family and friends? If so, why spend your time and attention on reading this comic at all?
This message is actually sent from the Facebook page and mirrored here and the sender is not likely to see it. The original discussion is here:
https://www.facebook.com/depressioncomix/photos/a.289230341197523.70369.289226297864594/1711224612331415/?type=3&theater
Ah, thank you, I didn’t realize that. Facebook is not my jam, so I’ll just leave it be then. (It seems unlikely they’d listen in any case, alas.)
You’re very right 🙁
I’m not refusing to understand society though, that’s a huge difference. It’s about (once again) making judgements and about being willfully ignorant making them. No one said it’s all on you, no one says it’s your job to reach people, but let’s not be judgemental jerks to each other. I don’t know why it’s difficult to get behind this message.
Meanwhile, six weeks later…
Shane Graham are you stirring up trouble?
Eddie Bozman No, actually I wasn’t. Someone posted something yesterday about me choking on Ayn Rand’s penis. [Shrug] Looks like they erased it.
Selfishness is a matter of perspective. Who is more selfish? A person who wants to end their own suffering by suicide, mistakingly thinking they are a burden to their loved ones, wrongly believing they have nothing positive to contribute to this world or a person who wants to avoid the pain of losing a loved one to suicide and therefore expects the depressed person to keep on suffering? Whose suffering takes precedence?
In an ideal society no one should have to suffer and we help each other alleviate the suffering as much as possible. But alas, society isn’t ideal so this judgemental attitude will stick around a little bit longer I’m afraid.
I don’t comment often, but I want you to know Clay that your comics are always an inspiration and a glimmer of sunshine on the rainy days. I love your drawing style and your texts are always straight to the point. <3
The problem with using terms like “selfish” is that they indicate a personality characteristic or flaw. Thus, when we say “suicide is selfish” we are not attributing suicide to an illness such as depression but to some flaw in the person. I think the problem of suicide is better served focusing on the medical rather than the shame. In many cases suicide is not a personality flaw but the endgame to a lethal illness called depression.
Well said! And the same goes for depression itself: it is still too often seen as a flaw or a bad personality trait. It is an illness.
This is where society is wrong; I agree with what was written about suicide, however I also believe that suicide means “giving up” really. If you feel alone, no one is listening to you, no one can help you get rid of these thoughts, then always remember this: away from religion, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, has a purpose in life. It’s only a matter of time until they realize it. They wouldn’t see it straight away, however they should be patient. I’ve been patient for a long time. I’ve been dealing with this stuff so much so that I loved being alone; I always feared loneliness and lose of hope and help, but here I am typing. You can say that I have withstood the “ultimate” obstacle of life, yet there is more to come. Know what? I’ll wait for it to bash me in the head, break my bones, tear my soul to shreds, burn my memories like paper and even take me into a never ending loop of torture. Trust me, you’ll find me getting up some how. Was I gifted with patience? No; you can’t call patience a “gift” since a gift is more special and unique, a “one-of-a-kind” thing given to you. Rather patience is within everyone. With it, you show society, and life itself for that matter, than you ain’t giving up just yet, because there is still a lot out there to see, cherish, love and live for.
So never give up! Stay strong and be safe! (Need help, let me know)
Alyssa