Commentary from January 24, 2017
This one was in my idea book for the longest time but I knew it needed some tweaks in the dialogue and I forgot about it. Recently I went back to that idea book to look around and I saw this strip and I could finally get the right words out.
What many people do not realize is that people who are considering suicide are already feeling shitty about themselves and the last thing they really need are more reasons to feel shitty about themselves. Like all human beings, we tend to have biases in how we understand other people that fit our worldviews, and if you already think the world has a negative opinion of you everything everybody says will somehow fit it.
For many, suicide happens because the sufferer has convinced themselves that the world would really be a better place without them. Comments that can be twisted to fit this view only make this worse. In the last panel, it shows how the selfish comment can be twisted to encourage suicide. As I said, we twist things to fit our own worldview, it’s how we work.
I’m not trying to say which is right or wrong. I recently got an angry mail about what this character said in an earlier strip, and how his thought patterns show disservice to the ones who lost one that they love through suicide. Although losing a loved one through suicide is a tragedy, this strip is not intended to make people feel better, it’s intended to shed light on how people think. It may be uncomfortable, it may be hard to read. Maybe we want people who consider suicide to regret their actions, to know how hard it affects others. But I can tell you as someone who has been there, it is difficult to imagine the sadness of others when you’re being crushed by the depression in your own skull. When your pain is great and inescapable, it’s hard to comprehend the pain of others, like trying to be sympathetic to other people’s headaches when you yourself are suffering from a migraine.
Recently I’ve been considering adding character descriptions on the site. One of the major reasons why is that some people have interpreted this character as dying several times, like in Groundhog Day. That’s never been the intention; in his story he dies once and all the strips show the things that happen before and after his death, the strips just don’t follow chronologically. There is another character who died in her first strip who follows this same pattern in that you see what was happening to her before she took her own life. With over 300 strips, it might be time for some tidying up.
What many people do not realize is that people who are considering suicide are already feeling shitty about themselves and the last thing they really need are more reasons to feel shitty about themselves. Like all human beings, we tend to have biases in how we understand other people that fit our worldviews, and if you already think the world has a negative opinion of you everything everybody says will somehow fit it.
For many, suicide happens because the sufferer has convinced themselves that the world would really be a better place without them. Comments that can be twisted to fit this view only make this worse. In the last panel, it shows how the selfish comment can be twisted to encourage suicide. As I said, we twist things to fit our own worldview, it’s how we work.
I’m not trying to say which is right or wrong. I recently got an angry mail about what this character said in an earlier strip, and how his thought patterns show disservice to the ones who lost one that they love through suicide. Although losing a loved one through suicide is a tragedy, this strip is not intended to make people feel better, it’s intended to shed light on how people think. It may be uncomfortable, it may be hard to read. Maybe we want people who consider suicide to regret their actions, to know how hard it affects others. But I can tell you as someone who has been there, it is difficult to imagine the sadness of others when you’re being crushed by the depression in your own skull. When your pain is great and inescapable, it’s hard to comprehend the pain of others, like trying to be sympathetic to other people’s headaches when you yourself are suffering from a migraine.
Recently I’ve been considering adding character descriptions on the site. One of the major reasons why is that some people have interpreted this character as dying several times, like in Groundhog Day. That’s never been the intention; in his story he dies once and all the strips show the things that happen before and after his death, the strips just don’t follow chronologically. There is another character who died in her first strip who follows this same pattern in that you see what was happening to her before she took her own life. With over 300 strips, it might be time for some tidying up.
Amen. This one is perfect. It is exactly how I have felt. Too many do not understand that being judgmental about someone’s suicidal feelings isn’t much different from encouraging them.
Reminds me of trying to have the I’m-thinking-of-killing-myself conversations. How often do those result in the depressed person comforting their loved one, rather than the other way around?
Panel 4 has been the background radiation of my life for longer than I care to remember.
Yeah, because depressed people are actually just simply put: Stupid!
That is the fucking sad truth about it.
I was was depressed for years.
For what reason? In the end? nothing.
Life is simply what you make of it, the power is yours if you have that guts to take it.
Thing about suicide, and I have been there. Tried a few times and failed.
One with alcohol. Once with the noose.
I’m not even going into the third attempt.
Anyway, it IS a totally selfish thing!
But is that necessarily a bad thing?
Because it isn’t. You SHOULD think about yourself and your own needs.
If you feel like the only way out is killing yourself, you are stupid. Trust me, you are. You don’t know shit but what you feel and have right in front of you.
You’ve only experienced the tip of the iceberg. You can either quit like a pussy or find out what other possibilities life has for you.
Because the possibilities are nearly endless. Only a suicidal, stupid idiot would see it as “This is the end, there is nothing else”
You are wrong. You are stupid. You are ineducated. Keep thinking like that and you deserve to die.
Go ahead, do the world a favour.
Do it.
Moron.
I don’t believe shaming depressed people is the answer.
It’s not about shaming. It’s about waking up.
Shame is a wasted feeling. Shit happens, we all make mistakes. We all do things we are not proud of.
Some doesn’t care, some takes it a bit too much to heart.
This is a part of life. Trying. Failing. Failing some more and then… you may just succeed.
I’m not talking about feeling shame, I’m talking about making people feel shameful. Things like “depressed people are stupid” and “wasted feeling” serve to invalidate what people think due to an illness. I don’t agree with invalidating how people feel. People feel what they feel for a reason, and it’s important to acknowledge those reasons, not to make them feel stupid for having them.
Agressively “waking them up” it might be seen in your eyes, remember though Mats, what might be as clear as day in your eyes might be a riddle to most. Make the best effort to be pedagogical and diplomatic about it.
Well, Mr Matts, since you have most obviously never had to deal with suicidal ideation, I wonder what your motive is for posting such dreck?
What is really depressing is that some people acknowledge depression as an illness that you can’t do anything about.
To listen to their stories and send them away with a prescription of meds.
Sure medication can help get you through the day, some days.
But in the end it has to come from yourself.
People can only show you different perspectives, but in the end you CHOOSE the one you want.
If someone want to beat themselves up constantly like in this comic, it won’t help you. I know how it feels, but there are better ways to focus your thoughts instead of just blaming yourself. You will help yourself and everyone else by doing so.
We all need to focus on ourselves, some self reflection is good since not one of us i ever perfect. What can I improve and so forth.
But when it goes into a downward spiral like this, isn’t helping.
Quite the opposite.
Depression is NOT an illness. It’s a condition!
An illness is something physically wrong with your body.
That on itself can MAKE you depressed.
Depression is a psychological symptom of how we live our lives.
So some self reflective: What is making me feel this way, find the causes. Eliminate them. If you want to call it a decease, that’s how you cure it. It can be you life, and people in it. It can be yourself and your own strange views of life. This is complicated and it takes time.
But killing yourself? Then you gave up.
Viewing it as a selfish act, to keep going.
Finding the strength and purpose in living on for others so that one day you might find the strength to live on for yourself.
Yes it’s selfish. We are SUPPOSED to be selfish.
You can’t just run around all your life thinking about others and forget yourself. That’s probably how most of us ends up in the depression in the first place.
And than you blame yourself for not being good enough?
Well, no. Not to yourself, no.
You’re wrong in a number of ways.
1) No one is suggesting that the proper way of treating depression is to give someone meds and send them away. It is well acknowledged that meds help relieve the symptoms but do not actually treat the illness. Therefore, the best treatment is meds and therapy, no one suggests that meds alone can treat depression.
2) depression is not a choice. Do you honestly believe people CHOOSE depression? Why the hell would anyone want to choose that?
3) Depression IS an illness. That’s why it’s categorized under mental ILLNESSes. Read: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/depression-what-you-need-to-know-12-2015/index.shtml
The rest of what you say is simply shaming the sufferer. You may think it’s a pep talk, but it really is demeaning and patronizing. I think that the route to helping people is to understand them, not talking down to them. You are free to disagree, but insulting depression sufferers is simply not tolerated here.
So much of what you say here Mats is absolute tosh; your line alone about depression not being an illness but a symptom is one of the easiest to disprove by simple scientific exploration. As a basic guide I’ll link you the NHS page on depression for your perusal; http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Introduction.aspx. Depression is very much an illness with symptoms of its own. Does that mean it’s insurmountable? No, it means that it needs to be dealt with medically and properly through a range of treatments whether that be medication, therapy, a combination or whatever else is seen to be useful. Not by crappy ‘pep-talks’ and calling them a ‘pussy’ out of your own lack of understanding.
Your approach in general though is bloody minded and exceptionally unhelpful. I have been in the depths of depression and I can now stand on the other side, look back and say, there but by the grace of God. To call someone else trapped in the same hell that I was for so long ‘stupid’, to call someone who may well be significantly more educated that you are ‘uneducated’ because you don’t understand the source of their pain, is irresponsible and heartless. To say they deserve to die because of a disease that they are trying (perhaps failing, but trying) to come out the other side of is reckless endangerment. You are saying to people in the grips of despair, who are not in full control of their capacity, that they should go and kill themselves because they are right, they are not good enough. That is simply wrong.
Absolutely wrong. Heartless, shameful, unthinking, irresponsible and wrong.
You claim that depressed people are just stupid and that the solution is basically to snap out of it, and then say that we’re “ineducated”?
Depression has nothing to do with how smart you are, nor is it a character flaw. It’s primarily an involuntary loss of emotional control. Sometimes you feel nothing at all, or detached from reality, and other times you feel intense sorrow, bitterness, loneliness, worthlessness, anxiety, or anger, all for no apparent reason and completely beyond your control. On top of that you get no enjoyment or sense of accomplishment from anything, and have virtually no energy to do anything.
I’ve recovered to the point that depression no longer dominates my life, but I still don’t have the full range of emotions I had before my illness. For example, I never experience intense joy, excitement, enthusiasm, or anger, and I don’t feel fear at all. Do you think I could restore my emotional balance by further educating myself? My IQ is already in the 99.6th percentile, so I can rule out stupidity as the cause.
I’m wonder if your rejection (or denial) of your own depression has made you bitter toward those who suffer from it. Or possibly you’re just a psychopathic troll who gets his kicks out of trying to make people kill themselves. Either way I think you belong in therapy, not here.
Mats Andersson – Shame on you for being such a stupid, heartless piece of shit.
I don’t feel triggered reading about suicide anymore! Methinks I have made MASSIVE PROGRESS! YAY. Life is tough but we will all die anyway eventually. These days instead of wanting to kill myself, I’m more scared of dying at a random time because essentially theres a lot I need to do whilst alive. It’s another stupid fear but at least its to my advantage as Im not having those god forsaken thoughts anymore and instead trying to understand and come to terms with death and living regardless. Its just how things work! . Dont give in to the voices and temporary emotions. Let death come for you WHEN ITS YOUR TIME AND YOUR LIFE WORK IS DONE not you seek it. You dont know if things could turn around tomorrow, who you could inspire, that dream job or finding the love of your life etc. The energy you use to try and off yourself could be transformed and used to do something worthwhile. Now that’s some higher level alchemist spiritual shit. Thats where Im at➡Turning the negative into positive. I encourage you all to seek something higher than yourselves or THERAPY, CHARITY HUMANITARIAN WORK and put your ALL into it
Depression isn’t a philosophy, it’s an illness.
You misunderstood where I’m coming from. No harm intended. Peace
Setting life goals really help too
depression comics creator- please know that your work is helpful and meaningful to me personally. I usually just read without commenting but especially given this topic, suicide, and the fact that you are having some less than appreciative remarks addressed to you about it, I wanted to be sure you know, what you are doing matters, to me and I am sure to many others. Thank you.
Beautifully said Melissa! Coulnd’t agree with you more. We all fight our depression demons in our own way. Some are more productive and make the world a more beautiful, like this comic. Others are less helpful and are in fact pretty damaging, adding to the self-defeating burden depression puts on people on a daily basis. If someone like Mats needs this hurtful outlook on suicide and depression (and basically himself) to continue on living, I’m sorry he needs such brutal weapons to keep his demons at bay.
I’m grateful depression comix provides a ray of sunshine in my times of darkness. <3
Thank you for the kind words. I honestly believe that malice isn’t intended, it’s just a lack of sensitivity to a topic that really demands it. I can definitely relate to the feeling that many of the things I do and did under the influence of depression are “stupid” but it’s not stupidity that makes people do this, it’s an illness. Some people get this, some don’t. The only thing I can do is make more comics, hoping that at some point I’ll hit the right button that helps people understand.
For me, this comic is the non-judging friend who understands and does not feel the need to offer advice. It’s the friend who will sit quietly with me for as long as I need.
I am in immense psychological and emotional pain 24/7, part of which is due to uncontrollable SI, and part of which is due to resisting the urge to entertain that ideation. Every day I wake up knowing that I have a 20% statistical chance of not making it to bed that night, and each night I go to sleep knowing that I won out over that day’s 20% statistical chance.
You’re doing a good thing here. I appreciate it as well.
This guy kills himself a lot!
I understand a lot of what you’re saying, and your main emphasis (choosing to improve your life/health yourself, etc) isn’t necessarily wrong. But your tone (among other things) demonstrates a complete lack of empathy and understanding. You say that you have been here in the depths. I’m sure watching people struggle with something you have conqured is frustrating for you. But shouting down to those fighting, belittling them… It tells me you don’t remember your time down there.
You do your best to forget the darkness, and who can blame you? But you’ve forgotten the unending misery, hopelessness. You’ve forgotten how your worldview had collapsed onto itself, to the point that death seemed the only possible solution. You forget that this illness manifests itself differently in everyone and has many causes with just as many treatments. You don’t think about the people who have put up the same fight your have that still can’t escape the pit: people struggling with decades’ long depression despite treatment and lifestyle changes. You may think you’re giving us a pep talk or even a solution, but any well-meaning advice is buried under smug superiority.
I understand the frustration, I do. I met people who were in and out of the psych ward over a dozen times a year. I met people so staunchly in denial of their condition that it exacerbated their symptoms. But my frustration is nothing compared to what those people felt regarding their own lives. And you’re right, we all need a breakthrough of clarity to CHOOSE life, but not everyone arrives at that decision easily, by the same means. And given the episodic nature of the illness, it is a decision many people struggle with their whole lives.
In the end, I hope you find the empathy within yourself to identify with those of us still struggling. I hope you remember the dark days and relish the light. And I hope that you remember that kindness is a much more powerful savior than guilt or shame.
This was in response to the thread earlier
I really think it is selfish for a friend or family member to make someone else’s pain about them. “How can you do this to ME?” Really? It’s not about YOU, it’s about the pain of the person suffering so much that they just want the pain to stop. I had to talk to a friend a couple of times about her suicidal thoughts. I did not turn it around to me or call her selfish. I spoke to her about her son. Maybe that wasn’t the right thing to do either, but I couldn’t think of anything else that would reach her.
I always feel that many of the anti-suicide people value the occasional happiness the depressed person brings them (occasional in that they don’t spend all day, every day with the sufferer) more than the perpetual doubt and pain that the suicidal person lives with. Is it a “permanent solution to a temporary problem” if the problem has been going on for decades?
Also a pity that this comment thread started with someone bashing the depressed, that was entirely unhelpful on Mats’ part.